The keyword here is invents. The music we share is not an invention. You & I may own a vinyl copy, but the copy write owners own the music. At least until the copy write becomes out of date. What we as bloggers are doing is borrow the music to share without paying any money to the owner. There is no getting away with the fact that once its on the www it belongs to everybody, to do with as they please. That is the downside of the web. The upside is we discover many things that we did not know about. You can't stop it being shared once it is on the net. Even by people reselling what you give for free. Thats called in business supply & demand. Some people (Suckers) will always think by paying its they get a legal copy. Most CD's & most reissued Vinyl of our type of music are bootlegs with no copy write paid. Making money be issuing old music has gone on for decades. I remember buying reproduction rockabilly 45's as a teenager. It did not mean I owned the copy write or the bootlegger owned the copy write. it was still a bootleg. Buying 2nd hand vinyl you also pay no copy write. Blogging a mp3 you pay no copy write is basically bootlegging. Blogging is about sharing for the love of it nothing else. I'm sorry if you stop I'd like the rest of the Obscure American series. But its your choice.Just remember the music was not yours to begin with, only the vinyl copy you own. It is not your invention. So there is no Plagiarism on music you did not invent. Not the same as something you do invent in the science world. Anyway I hope you continue to database the lost music Dean
Your password system does not help. This jus encourages those who can break it, to sell the music you share. If there was no password and everybody could get it for free, they would not see the point of trying to sell it.
My friend, Professor R'n'R: It was possible to see it from another perspective. For example, many of my works appear on the web, without any reference to me. It doesn't really bother me, because it means they have value, and that my mission to spread music and ensure it's not lost is being achieved. I'm really happy that they're being shared. I believe music is meant to be shared, and it is a courtesy to cite the original sources. With songs, it's more difficult. Personally, I don't know where most of the ones I publish came from, although I appreciate it. I don't consider myself a thief, but rather a disseminator. I hope you understand my ideas and continue with your work. Greetings from Spain. Jose
You do the Professor an injustice and demean his efforts. For even if the original copyright belongs to the musician it is the Professor's research and resources which pull together music otherwise lost to us. The uniqueness of this site is that the Professor seeks out and puts together these collections and as a collection its is his creation not anyone else's and just as a musician might feel dismayed at others making money off his works so the professor has a right to feel dismayed at the distribution of his collections by unknown individuals who lack the good grace to give credit where credit is due.
Just because someone doesn't invent all the components of an item doesn't mean that they don't get any credit for the finished product. You would still give credit to someone who made that product even if many other people contributed to it.
Its little different. Sure he did not invent the music but he did invent the thousands of collections he has compiled of that music and done something that as far as I know nobody else on the Internet has done.
So perhaps you should show a significantly greater amount of sympathy in this situation instead saying 'its tough, it happens' and effectively justifying the person who has been gracelessly stealing the compilations for their own purposes.
And then of course you ask for the compilations to continue. Some people have a strange way of presenting themselves......
For myself I have great sympathy with the professor and its a sad reflection on modern life that there are so many who believe they can take anything they like without giving any sort of recognition or thanks (and worse still take all the credit after doing nothing themselves) to those who put the effort in to create such unique works as the Professor has put together. it's equally sad that so many just shrug their shoulders and accept such behaviour.
I can understand then why the Professor then questions whether all his painstaking work is worthwhile and all I can say is for those of us who appreciate at least some of the work he has done (I've not yet participated in his latest project) his efforts are greatly appreciated and hopefully will long continue.
You are doing some great work Prof. Don't let the bastards grind you down!
I am sorry there are people who do not respect your work Prof. I am not one of them and I hope you continue your project to its fulfillment are doing something truly unique on the web unlike many others who just recycle other people efforts
Let me get this straight you're claiming plagiarism of a recording you plagiarized? Since when did any of these recordings become yours? You claiming ownership because you took the time to clean it up and made it sound better? I'm sorry once you offer it up to have it downloaded you lost control of your "creative ownership". If you can't handle this I would agree and you should shut this site down.
@philo You did not understand meaning of plagiarism. I do not own copyrights to music that I’m sharing. On the other hand, sharing, among friends, rips of vinyl records that I own, music that is 60+ years old is legal, it is not plagiarism. Making professional rips, professional remastering is my hard work. If you download and share with friends, with reference to original uploader, then it is OK with me. If you download and share on your YouTube channel or other audio file sharing platform, without reference to original uploader, than it is plagiarism. If you share further, then REFERENCE to original source (ProfessorRnR) is all that I expect! @jose see the last sentence above. @ Anona Many thanks for understanding @Apesville You did not understand my point of view. Please read the last sentence of my comment to @philo. BTW, you are posting my rips but always you give thank you to ProfRnR and that’s all that I expect.
Yes sometimes I use your copy of a mp3 because it is better bit rate i burnt my collection decades ago, when hard drives were small & used 128 not 320. Or it has not been messed with. I hate popcorn. I do try to say thank you to people who send me better bit rates, or less scratchy copies. But with so much music it is hard all the time to remember where they all came from. There are more than one copy of a 45 out there.
I forgotten to add, that each compilation in Obscure Artists series is preceded by 3-4 days research on artist discographies and bios. Transferring and verification of data from Kreiter’s book (key reference) cost me half a year (>1500 hours) of hard work). This research is my IP and it is Copyright Controlled. If you do not understand this simple fact then please do not visit my blog again.
@Apesville I read your comments again and I’m finding them very unjust. You accuse me of illegal sharing of CC music what is not true. You can share 1. music transferred from your own vinyl record, 2. music older than 60 years, 3. with friends only. And that’s what I’m doing. Moreover, I do the research on artist bios, I designed the concept of the project Obscure Oldies, I use my knowledge to professionally rip and remaster original 45’s. and all these are my IP, CC as such. Please read comment of Anona Mouse, she understands that my hard work is my IP and CC and worth protection from further sharing without my authorization. From now on, I will share only with friends who share with me this philosophy, you evidently do not share it.
I agree the artwork pdf are your hard work and your copywrite. Music over 60 year old is out of copyright in my country I do not know if thats the case everywhere.. I'm not sure if sharing with friends is legal in your country or not. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not getting into an argument. Yes your burns are better than some CD copies. I always say Thank you. I have also over the years supplied more tracks to you from your missing list than most do. Ihave read the comments & still can not see how you can stop others sharing? Dean
@Apesville 1. From your comment: “you borrow the music to share without paying any money” = you steal the music. And this is not true (explained above) = my sharing is legal. 2. Obscure Artists Project design, research on artist bios, professional ripping and remastering technique, all these are my Intellectual Property and are Copyright Controlled = unauthorized further sharing is not allowed. You disagree with both. I can share only with somebody who supports my posting/sharing philosophy, like Anona Mouse. I’m very grateful for your help so far but to avoid future controversies it would be better for us to stop sharing. I hope that you'll understand that I can’t share with somebody who follows philosophy of sharing completely different than mine. I will be running music part of the blog for myself. Eventually, I will limit sharing to few close friends (less than 10). I know them for many years and I’m 100% sure that they will follow download and listen philosophy, that they will not share publicly.
@Apesville You write “you share and do not pay for what you share” what means to me “you steal content that you share” and this is very unjust statement. I share content which is in public domain and pay big money to buy this content. Moreover, you are questioning my copyrights to research on obscure artists, content acquisition and processing – acquisition costs me lots of money, processing (ripping and remastering) is my IP.
19 comments:
The keyword here is invents. The music we share is not an invention. You & I may own a vinyl copy, but the copy write owners own the music. At least until the copy write becomes out of date. What we as bloggers are doing is borrow the music to share without paying any money to the owner. There is no getting away with the fact that once its on the www it belongs to everybody, to do with as they please. That is the downside of the web. The upside is we discover many things that we did not know about. You can't stop it being shared once it is on the net. Even by people reselling what you give for free. Thats called in business supply & demand. Some people (Suckers) will always think by paying its they get a legal copy. Most CD's & most reissued Vinyl of our type of music are bootlegs with no copy write paid. Making money be issuing old music has gone on for decades. I remember buying reproduction rockabilly 45's as a teenager. It did not mean I owned the copy write or the bootlegger owned the copy write. it was still a bootleg. Buying 2nd hand vinyl you also pay no copy write. Blogging a mp3 you pay no copy write is basically bootlegging. Blogging is about sharing for the love of it nothing else. I'm sorry if you stop I'd like the rest of the Obscure American series. But its your choice.Just remember the music was not yours to begin with, only the vinyl copy you own. It is not your invention. So there is no Plagiarism on music you did not invent. Not the same as something you do invent in the science world. Anyway I hope you continue to database the lost music Dean
Your password system does not help. This jus encourages those who can break it, to sell the music you share. If there was no password and everybody could get it for free, they would not see the point of trying to sell it.
I'm agreed with Apesville and specially with his second commentary. Anyway many thanks for your great work.
Racati
My friend, Professor R'n'R:
It was possible to see it from another perspective.
For example, many of my works appear on the web, without any reference to me. It doesn't really bother me, because it means they have value, and that my mission to spread music and ensure it's not lost is being achieved. I'm really happy that they're being shared.
I believe music is meant to be shared, and it is a courtesy to cite the original sources. With songs, it's more difficult. Personally, I don't know where most of the ones I publish came from, although I appreciate it. I don't consider myself a thief, but rather a disseminator.
I hope you understand my ideas and continue with your work.
Greetings from Spain.
Jose
You do the Professor an injustice and demean his efforts. For even if the original copyright belongs to the musician it is the Professor's research and resources which pull together music otherwise lost to us. The uniqueness of this site is that the Professor seeks out and puts together these collections and as a collection its is his creation not anyone else's and just as a musician might feel dismayed at others making money off his works so the professor has a right to feel dismayed at the distribution of his collections by unknown individuals who lack the good grace to give credit where credit is due.
Just because someone doesn't invent all the components of an item doesn't mean that they don't get any credit for the finished product. You would still give credit to someone who made that product even if many other people contributed to it.
Its little different. Sure he did not invent the music but he did invent the thousands of collections he has compiled of that music and done something that as far as I know nobody else on the Internet has done.
So perhaps you should show a significantly greater amount of sympathy in this situation instead saying 'its tough, it happens' and effectively justifying the person who has been gracelessly stealing the compilations for their own purposes.
And then of course you ask for the compilations to continue. Some people have a strange way of presenting themselves......
For myself I have great sympathy with the professor and its a sad reflection on modern life that there are so many who believe they can take anything they like without giving any sort of recognition or thanks (and worse still take all the credit after doing nothing themselves) to those who put the effort in to create such unique works as the Professor has put together. it's equally sad that so many just shrug their shoulders and accept such behaviour.
I can understand then why the Professor then questions whether all his painstaking work is worthwhile and all I can say is for those of us who appreciate at least some of the work he has done (I've not yet participated in his latest project) his efforts are greatly appreciated and hopefully will long continue.
You are doing some great work Prof. Don't let the bastards grind you down!
In other walks of life your sentiments here might be considered 'victim blaming' and hardly helpful. Not smart if you want him to continue his work.
I am sorry there are people who do not respect your work Prof. I am not one of them and I hope you continue your project to its fulfillment are doing something truly unique on the web unlike many others who just recycle other people efforts
Let me get this straight you're claiming plagiarism of a recording you plagiarized? Since when did any of these recordings become yours? You claiming ownership because you took the time to clean it up and made it sound better? I'm sorry once you offer it up to have it downloaded you lost control of your "creative ownership". If you can't handle this I would agree and you should shut this site down.
@philo
You did not understand meaning of plagiarism. I do not own copyrights to music that I’m sharing. On the other hand, sharing, among friends, rips of vinyl records that I own, music that is 60+ years old is legal, it is not plagiarism. Making professional rips, professional remastering is my hard work. If you download and share with friends, with reference to original uploader, then it is OK with me. If you download and share on your YouTube channel or other audio file sharing platform, without reference to original uploader, than it is plagiarism.
If you share further, then REFERENCE to original source (ProfessorRnR) is all that I expect!
@jose
see the last sentence above.
@ Anona
Many thanks for understanding
@Apesville
You did not understand my point of view. Please read the last sentence of my comment to @philo. BTW, you are posting my rips but always you give thank you to ProfRnR and that’s all that I expect.
Yes sometimes I use your copy of a mp3 because it is better bit rate i burnt my collection decades ago, when hard drives were small & used 128 not 320. Or it has not been messed with. I hate popcorn. I do try to say thank you to people who send me better bit rates, or less scratchy copies. But with so much music it is hard all the time to remember where they all came from. There are more than one copy of a 45 out there.
Dean, my friend. You always remember to leave "thank you to ProfRnR" and that's all that I expect. Too much?
I forgotten to add, that each compilation in Obscure Artists series is preceded by 3-4 days research on artist discographies and bios. Transferring and verification of data from Kreiter’s book (key reference) cost me half a year (>1500 hours) of hard work). This research is my IP and it is Copyright Controlled. If you do not understand this simple fact then please do not visit my blog again.
No its good to say Thank you. Could i get the password for R36 Thank you Dean
@Apesville
I read your comments again and I’m finding them very unjust. You accuse me of illegal sharing of CC music what is not true. You can share 1. music transferred from your own vinyl record, 2. music older than 60 years, 3. with friends only. And that’s what I’m doing. Moreover, I do the research on artist bios, I designed the concept of the project Obscure Oldies, I use my knowledge to professionally rip and remaster original 45’s. and all these are my IP, CC as such. Please read comment of Anona Mouse, she understands that my hard work is my IP and CC and worth protection from further sharing without my authorization. From now on, I will share only with friends who share with me this philosophy, you evidently do not share it.
I agree the artwork pdf are your hard work and your copywrite. Music over 60 year old is out of copyright in my country I do not know if thats the case everywhere.. I'm not sure if sharing with friends is legal in your country or not. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not getting into an argument. Yes your burns are better than some CD copies. I always say Thank you. I have also over the years supplied more tracks to you from your missing list than most do. Ihave read the comments & still can not see how you can stop others sharing? Dean
@Apesville
1. From your comment: “you borrow the music to share without paying any money” = you steal the music. And this is not true (explained above) = my sharing is legal.
2. Obscure Artists Project design, research on artist bios, professional ripping and remastering technique, all these are my Intellectual Property and are Copyright Controlled = unauthorized further sharing is not allowed.
You disagree with both. I can share only with somebody who supports my posting/sharing philosophy, like Anona Mouse. I’m very grateful for your help so far but to avoid future controversies it would be better for us to stop sharing. I hope that you'll understand that I can’t share with somebody who follows philosophy of sharing completely different than mine.
I will be running music part of the blog for myself. Eventually, I will limit sharing to few close friends (less than 10). I know them for many years and I’m 100% sure that they will follow download and listen philosophy, that they will not share publicly.
"you steal the music" I never said that at any point
@Apesville
You write “you share and do not pay for what you share” what means to me “you steal content that you share” and this is very unjust statement. I share content which is in public domain and pay big money to buy this content.
Moreover, you are questioning my copyrights to research on obscure artists, content acquisition and processing – acquisition costs me lots of money, processing (ripping and remastering) is my IP.
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